1 juni 2016

MK3 spoiled deck walkthrough

My standard disclaimer I have only done limited play testing and the real rules are not here yet. Stuff might be good that I can't just see on a card. I am still highly opinionated so you will probably see som opinions you don't agree with. Anyway I am right you are wrong ;)

Grading scale:

Worthless. Lets explain this. Worthless means I don't see my self playing this in a three list tournament. Simple as that. I am not exited to bring it to a steamroller. It usually has nothing to do with their rules. They can be great. It's just that there are better options for the same role.
Undecided: Just what it sounds neither or. Rules we don't know yet will change what I think of it.
Playable: I will bring this to a steamroller event when I am competitive.



For stat changes she loses one speed and one def. Gains an armor. Her warping ability changed a bit. the +2 str is still there. The flying ability now also gives+1 speed. Compensating for the loss of stat some what. Then she lost her ability to warp for reach but gained ashen veil instead. That makes her really hard to kill. She lost the spirit eater but her critical grievous wounds lost the crit part. Her feat does no longer damage her. Her spell list changed a bit. Gaining a spell for Battle group Hyper Aggressive and Wild Aggression. Blight field became blight burst. A pow 13 nuke aoe4 with all the good stuff from blight field. She lost carnivore and playing god. All in all she was slightly nerfed. Less purification is good for her but yeah no. They tuned her down for some reason.

Verdict: Worthless


Stats wise: I actually don't know eAbbys Mk2 stats I never cared about her. From the day I first saw her she was a worse pVayl in my mind. Well that has changed now.

Spell card: She loses teleport. Gains reposition 5". So a little less safe but she can camp or kill more. She also gained Hex Bolt. That lets her trigger Alpha Hunter(Conferred Rage) without beating stuff up in melee. 

All in all she is now crazy powerful. An effect of everything else getting the axe. She is one of the premier casters now I think.

Verdict: Playable


Stats wise: she gained a point of armor. Her new feat is flank friendly faction warbeast to our infantry. Not really a great feat. As feat goes if you check this is at the bottom of the tier. It's better effect but you have to invest models into running up there doing less work for our infantry to kill stuff. I have been thinking about beast mistress and shredders as a solution. You can get the shredders in there and then move them with Energizer. Not convinced it is worth it.

Her spell list changed a lot. Losing Eruption gallows and carnivore. She instead gained Venom and two new spells. Disintegration is a cost 3 pow 13(+2) bolt with the added benefit of being -2 arm on hit and models that die from it is RFP:ed. An effective pow 15 bolt is kinda cool for assassinations. As an damage buff goes it is limited. Only working on a single model but its not an upkeep. So you can put it out on two models and kind of play pLylyths game of letting you kill stuff simpler.

Then you also have Invocation of blood. Invocation does two different things depending on if you are melded or not. If Bethayne is in Belphagore then Belphagore puts on his big boy pants and becomes a real heavy. If she is outside she can advance towards Belphy. I feel like Invocation is an situationally great spell. It can get you to unexpected places.

Betty got changed into an infantry support caster. Her new spells are great but she kind of lost her spot in legion. She was one of the few casters that could deal with both Cygnar and Cryx. Now she empowers infantry. We already had a caster like that. He was not really played very much either. Her power level is directly dependent on the infantry she brings and ours is crap. There for she is crap.

Verdict: Worthless


Now here is the biggest caster buff in mk3 I think. She was good before, now she is competing for a spot in my tournament pair. She lost bush wack. A rule I never used with her but instead she gained prowl. She also traded bad blood for pursuit. A huge thing against Warmachine. Against hordes it might be a slight drawback since she no longer has that insane assassination threat. That was mostly a gotcha though. Pursuit is one of the spells I love most. Putting it on a stormwall is one of my favorite things in life. I don't know how useful it will be on Lylyth1 though since she will be busy putting out parasites to help you kill the world.

Then lets talk about her gun or more about the snipe animus. 16" is huge on her. She also got RoF 2 so no longer needs to pay for a second shot. She also gained 3 types on her weapon. 1)Free charges. 2) Add or remove a fury. 3) witch mark. She can now shoot one heavy with witch mark and put up parasite on it. Then shoot something else with free charges. Her second ability is really mean against hordes armies. 

She does the same thing as before. Make sure one jack dies without any effort each turn. Her drawback was that she got her self killed. Now that drawback is gone. Stealth and 16" on her gun is a godsend.

ps. People are vocal about the succubus being great for her. I think that is wrong. I have never in my Warmachine carrier had to upkeep parasite. I think the Swamp Gobbers is the way to go for personal protection on her. Cheaper and better.

Verdict: Playable.


She got the nerf hammer. Hard. Deservedly hard. She lost shadow pack, pursuit and snipe on the feat. Instead everyone gets an extra shot, not just the battle group. She also gained Mirage and soothing song. Both of which are kind of dead spells. The only good target for mirage I have thought about is banshees. They normally lack a way to get out of melee to sprey but this lets them. Soothing song is just a waist of space on her card. You want to active eLylyth first. Each turn she aims and shoot stuff. Then you see where she ends up and you castle around her. Not to mention how she wants to wraith bane stuff and feat. Before her beasts activate.

In a vacuum her power level did not change all that much. The trouble is in the match ups she used to crush that she is now crushed by. This is kind of the same situation as with the Haley2 nerf. It did not really decrees her power level a lot but it affected some match ups greatly. She is now an dedicated anti infantry caster. She will blow 40 infantry of the table a turn and keep doing it. She will no longer have the power to chew through Cygnar lists like she did though. So I do not see my self playing her in the future.

Verdict: Worthless.


She gained one defense and got reposition 5". Her feat is now stationary instead of death chill. That change makes her better at killing casters but a lot less survivable.

The important thing I think here is how much worse Aiyana became. So less people will bring her so there will be less magical shooting. Increasing the value of wind wall. Losing Zuriels animus is sad time for her but gaining snipe is nice. Probably is a wash. 28" I will shoot your caster is nice to have but you need a normal game as well not just assassination.

Verdict: Playable

Thagrosh 1:

He became an Ogrun. So gained tough and the War chiefs veteran leader works with him.
His spell list is much the same. Bad blood changed name and became Twisted form. Traded the damage on caster when you leached for -2 fury on the war beast. A great change for Thags. Most heavys have trouble one rounding one of thags heavies so limiting the ones that can with -2 fury might be just the trick he needed.

His feat got the nerf it deserved. Losing the ability to bring back a colossal is a huge blow to him. Not that he used it very often but the threat was enough to stop people from committing. He also spent a lot of time passing around animii which he cant do any more.

Verdict Undecided

Thagrosh 2:

Very small changes here. Skip if you don't plan to play him. 
He is also an ogrun with all that entails. His breath lost the cold type so can damage Sorcha and the like. Still got crit stationary. Blood spawn can trigger on any damage. Does not need to be over 5.

Flesh eater only needs to damage for the heal but lost the RFP part. Unnatural aggression became hyper aggressive. Dragons blood gives corrosion continuous effect. All slight nerfs. Non that really matters a lot I think.

Pimp daddy stays the pimp daddy. Which is great. Guard dog from the protector will also help him a great deal I think. Not the extra defense against melee. The parry part. Getting him into the right spot without taking a free strike was hard sometimes.

Verdict: Playable


Oh god. The nerfs hurt. Hurt so much. It used to be love but it's over now. She used to be good but she lost it somehow. Lets start with the good things. She gained an armor and incite works for everyone. Then the bad stuff. She lost rampager and Leash became directly towards. Then there are some small stuff like talion is capped out at 5 damage. Not really important. Then lets talk about the big change. She can no longer move back on her feat. That means she can no longer get that double turn of incite and killing everything. Instead it becomes. Incite, kill stuff, die a horrible death. She has mk2 Lylyth1 problems now. Even worse then that since lylyth1 could at least stay 12" away. She is a chiller bot now. Which is kinda nice since she will chill on the shelf for a while. 

Verdict: Worthless


I knew she was to good. Game destroying even. Her old power made whole factions just sigh when they faced legion. So I was prepared. I knew it was going to be bad. I was still a bit optimistic. I should not have been.

She stayed the same ability wise. She can not charge her own models anymore though. She also lost 2" on her killing spell. So she went from 32,2" to only effectively 26" now. STILL WAY TO FAR PEOPLE. What is wrong with pp. Why do they think 26" is an okay threat range. I am wondering if there will be a rule that wont let you attack your own models.

Her spell list was changed. Out with refuge, purification and obliteration. In with chasten boundless charge and her new spell deadly storm. A aoe3 pow 13 bolt. That has the skornergy of putting out and cloud effect on the target. So her 26" assassination is now Feat. boost to hit with icy grip. Throw 3 pow 12:s boosted damage and one pow 13 with boosted damage at the target. That is not really worse then 2 pow 15:s. Not enough worse anyhow. Especially not with the new camp rules.I can not understand why they tuned down her normal game to this level. Now you can just bring a lot of blood seers for the +2 to hit and make the assassination even better. Since no way you win the grind with that shit.

You can actually do some funny stuff with deadly storm. Throwing 2 of those out there to block LoS and then fill up with scathers. To create a roadblock but its not good enough.

She is now a pure blood assassination caster. Something that good players will know and play around. She is still a negative play experience for newer players. This just makes me sad. They did all the wrong things. This just makes me sad.

Verdict: Worthless


She gained a point of strength. Which is nice. She lost perfect balance though. Which is not nice. All in all nothing really changed. She kind of needed things to change for her. She deserved a buff. Something cool. Not to get slightly tuned down.

Verdict: Worthless


I think her changes are good. +3 arm is a lot better in a shooting meta then her old feat was. The new blight bringer spell is worded weirdly though. Is it pow 12 on your model and then pow 6 on enemies? Hellfire had to be changed since its old effect no longer mattered. So stuff killed by hellfire does not get to tough.

I think she will be an AA caster. Sit behind the AA use Blight Bringer/breath stealer to make it unkillable. Same thing that abby1 does but Saeryn does it better.



They got a slight buff in warbeast points. Rhyas gained the same strength. They no longer have the bond of blood that let them transfer between each other. Hopefully they got that in the real rules otherwise RFP will be a huge problem for them.

Marked for death lost the LoS thing which is minor but was nice tech against cloud walls. Occultation became friendly faction. Psychich vampire got cheaper och worded more clearly. Otherwise it is all the same.

They got a slight buff in warbeast points. So they are no longer super worst in that department. The nerf to occultation really hurts the list I used to play with them. I think they might be good enough to play but they needed good infantry and you will be able to read what I think about our new infantry later :D

Verdict: Undecided


He stayed exactly the same except for a small thing. His feat no longer works on minions. So no croak synergy anymore. As compensation it's now +3 def instead of +2. Then there is a funny thing. He kept unconquerable and gained unyielding. Which is kinda redundant. Or points at models not being within their own command or Casters are no longer warrior models?

He is a really good infantry.

Verdict: Worthless


Harrier: Worthless
Shredder: Playable, Abby2 I think otherwise they are trash.
Stinger: Worthless
Blight Wasps: Playable, Abby2 is still the savior keeping these guys from the trash pile.
Afflictor: Worthless
Bloodseer: Worthless
Bolt Thrower: Playable, All the Lylyths love snipe.
Protector: Playable, Thags2/Twins love this guy.
Soldier: Worthless
Naga: Playable, Everyone wants the naga now I think. It got cheaper, crit shadow bind on the gun. At the same time we lost our purification caster.
Raek: Undecided, my gut instinct is worthless but I need to test the threat of Thags2/Rhyas with countercharge. Sounds funny.
Teraph: Worthless
Angelius: Worthless. The Angelius was a bad beast before. It was just that Saeryns feat and refuge was so good with it that made it playable. Those things are gone now. It also hurts the most from the removal of tenacity.
Carnivean: Undecided. There might be lists out there that spam Carniveans but I look at it and think this could have been a ravagore. We will see if the meta changes enough that you need the arm cracking power.
Neraph: Worthless
Ravagore: When everything else gets nerfed. The ravagore gets a lateral move. The loss in speed and animus is nicely made up with aoe4, arcing fire and another melee initial. Playable. I think in all lists. My first test will be abby2 5 ravagores I think.
Scythean: Undecided, he got nerfed but some casters love their scythean.
Seraph: Playable. All our melee beast casters want one.
Proteus: Worthless. Competes with the ravagore and loses.
Typhon: God tier. So far he has sneaked in to almost all my mk3 lists. The synergies are there with almost all our casters. Not to mention the baller assassination threat he has.
Zuriel: Worthless
Arch Angel: Undecided. I can look at two ravagores and think about replaying them with the AA. That was not a choice i had in mark2. This is one of the models I look forward to play test the most :D
Blightbringer: Playable, Thags1 still loves his little mongo.

Ravagore spam is the way of the future I think. It was the only thing that did not get pulled down that much.


Archers: Worthless. CMD 2 on a unit to get full effect makes the unit unplayable.
Grotesque Raiders: Undecided. Spd7 stealth for a cheep price is nice. The anti stealth tech and Aoes might turn them into trash though.
Grotesque Banshees: Playable. The perfect trash infantry. Fast and unkillable. Our premier jammer.
Hex Hunters: Worthless. They gained nothing but lost 1 speed and stealth. They can become shadows of their own self with the BB/Gobbers but then you are kind of forced to bunch them and no immunity to blasts makes me sad.
Legionnaires: Worthless. Getting more expensive and gaining almost nothing is not a good thing.
Raptors: God tier. getting cheaper and staying the same is a great way to become op.
Scather crew: Worthless.
Strider Scouts: Worthless
Strider Blightblades: Worthless
Swordsmen: Undecided, they hit really hard and 1" range on their melee makes cleave and over take more of a good option. They are good if they can get to their target. I just think that most lists will blow them out of the waters before they get there.
Warmongers: Worthless
Warspears: Playable. Just since thags1 love them so much. Losing 3 boxes for tough is really not a good trade.
Spawning vessel: Worthless. It lost rules and got more expensive. At the same time our lessers became trash.
Black Frost Shard: Playable, They got cheaper and Battle wizard is great for them. Not to mention the rise of lylyth1&3 benefits them greatly.

Conclusion: Banshees with solo or Raptors with Annyssa is the two units I will bring. I really thought our infantry would be brought up to a playable level. Not make all of them into the same point level and make non of them worth the points.


Beast mistress: Worthless. Might be playable in B&B for good feat targets and the fun of charging in shredders and then moving them about. Otherwise I don't think so.
Shepherd: Playable with everyone. Just the healing when you need it is worth 0,5 points. Not sure how useful it will be to bringing more than one.
Sorceress & Hellion: Worthless.
The Forsaken: Playable in everything.
Grotesque Assassin: Mandatory when you play grots. Still good when you don't bring any.
Incubus: Worthless
Spell martyr: Great when you have a point over. Almost all our casters have a spell they can just throw out there.
Strider Deathstalker: God tier. Ignoring tough is just what they needed.
Succubus: Worthless. She is too expensive for what she does. *note after play testing Lylyth3 I am changing this. She is needed in lylyth3.
Warmonger war chief: Undecided.
Fyanna the Trash: Worthless
Annyssa Ryvaal: Playable. The rof2 instead of snap fire change is nice. The change to back strike is also great. The change to veteran leader is bad for her but she is good enough of a solo for 8 points that it does not matter.

Conclusion: Deathstalkers+Annyssa to take care of infantry. Forsaken to take care of fury. Grot assassin is really good at removing the jam from your Deathstalkers.

Throne: Worthless.

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